Comments on: Joan of Arc of McBride Park http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/ Kitsilano's very own blog. Sat, 11 Feb 2012 08:31:54 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v= By: Thom http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/#comment-6604 Thom Tue, 09 Feb 2010 00:42:29 +0000 http://www.kitsilano.ca/?p=4447#comment-6604 Mark-- If you continue on to the next paragraph of the report you will find the latest Blenheim St. count: "Traffic volumes on the 2000 block of Blenheim Street were still significantly increased compared to pre-closure volumes. Approximately 600 vehicles per day have been diverted to Blenheim Street with a traffic volume increase from 1300 vehicles per day to 1900 vehicles per day as result of the closure." To my mind, the advantage of the Waterloo St. crossing is the uncommon width of the road, providing much greater separation from playing areas. Also, from my viewpoint overlooking the park, the "reminder" speed hump turning onto Waterloo from 4th has been very effective. Mark–
If you continue on to the next paragraph of the report you will find
the latest Blenheim St. count:
“Traffic volumes on the 2000 block of Blenheim Street were still significantly increased compared to pre-closure volumes. Approximately 600 vehicles per day have been diverted to Blenheim Street with a traffic volume increase from 1300 vehicles per day to 1900 vehicles per day as result of the closure.”

To my mind, the advantage of the Waterloo St. crossing is the uncommon width of the road, providing much greater separation from playing areas. Also, from my viewpoint overlooking the park, the “reminder” speed hump turning onto Waterloo from 4th has been very effective.

]]> By: Mark A http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/#comment-6603 Mark A Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:49:04 +0000 http://www.kitsilano.ca/?p=4447#comment-6603 BTW, I'm guessing that your argument about a threefold increase applies to traffic on 5th avenue: it could be that there were 600 cars a day using Waterloo that travelled down 5th Ave to Blenheim, adding to 300 cars a day already using that stretch of 5th. But you could argue in response that 600 cars going around the edge of a park is better than 600 going through the middle of a park. Local homeowners of course are not going to buy this argument because it's 600 cars going past their house, where they spend most of their time, rather than through the park which they visit only occasionally. Park users unlike the local residents seemed to be in favour of the plan, according to the report. BTW, I’m guessing that your argument about a threefold increase applies to traffic on 5th avenue: it could be that there were 600 cars a day using Waterloo that travelled down 5th Ave to Blenheim, adding to 300 cars a day already using that stretch of 5th.

But you could argue in response that 600 cars going around the edge of a park is better than 600 going through the middle of a park. Local homeowners of course are not going to buy this argument because it’s 600 cars going past their house, where they spend most of their time, rather than through the park which they visit only occasionally. Park users unlike the local residents seemed to be in favour of the plan, according to the report.

]]> By: Mark A http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/#comment-6602 Mark A Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:38:03 +0000 http://www.kitsilano.ca/?p=4447#comment-6602 Rather than argue about definitions of the word "traffic", I'll just refer you to the exact wording of the report, which says: "Approximately 500 vehicles per day have been diverted to Blenheim Street with a traffic volume increase from 1300 vehicles per day to 1800 vehicles per day" So in the sense that the words "traffic volume" are used by the City, the increase on Blenheim was 38% and not "threefold". Rather than argue about definitions of the word “traffic”, I’ll just refer you to the exact wording of the report, which says:

“Approximately 500 vehicles per day have been diverted to Blenheim Street with a traffic volume increase from 1300 vehicles per day to 1800 vehicles per day”

So in the sense that the words “traffic volume” are used by the City, the increase on Blenheim was 38% and not “threefold”.

]]> By: Thom http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/#comment-6601 Thom Mon, 08 Feb 2010 23:30:14 +0000 http://www.kitsilano.ca/?p=4447#comment-6601 Thanks for the feedback, Mark. I believe the last measured increase at Blenheim was 614 autos per day. In defence of my logic, "cars" and "traffic" are not quite the same thing, "traffic" referring to the distance, time taken, and path of the diverted "cars", i.e. The passage of people or vehicles along routes of transportation. So, 600 cars travelling an end of a city block is significantly less "traffic" than 600 cars travelling an entire city block plus an end of a block. Dictionary definition: Traffic, The passage of people or vehicles along routes of transportation. I believe the last measured increase at Blenheim was 614 autos per day. In defense of my logic, "cars" and "traffic" are not quite the same thing, "traffic" referring to the distance, time taken, and path of the diverted "cars", i.e. 600 cars travelling an end of a city block is less "traffic" than 600 cars travelling an entire city block plus an end of a city block. Thanks for the feedback, Mark.

I believe the last measured increase at Blenheim was 614 autos per day. In defence of my logic, “cars” and “traffic” are not quite the same thing, “traffic” referring to the distance, time taken, and path of the diverted “cars”, i.e. The passage of people or vehicles along routes of transportation. So, 600 cars travelling an end of a city block is significantly less “traffic” than 600 cars travelling an entire city block plus an end of a block.

Dictionary definition: Traffic, The passage of people or vehicles along routes of transportation.

I believe the last measured increase at Blenheim was 614 autos per day. In defense of my logic, “cars” and “traffic” are not quite the same thing, “traffic” referring to the distance, time taken, and path of the diverted “cars”, i.e. 600 cars travelling an end of a city block is less “traffic” than 600 cars travelling an entire city block plus an end of a city block.

]]> By: Mark A http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/#comment-6600 Mark A Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:49:56 +0000 http://www.kitsilano.ca/?p=4447#comment-6600 Thanks Thom. It does seem clear that people living close to the park were overwhelmingly against the closure, so perhaps that should be the end of it. I think your logic on the "threefold increase in traffic" is a bit shaky and not supported by the report though. 500 cars per day is still 500 cars per day, even if they travelled 300m instead of 100. ..Mark.. Thanks Thom.

It does seem clear that people living close to the park were overwhelmingly against the closure, so perhaps that should be the end of it.

I think your logic on the “threefold increase in traffic” is a bit shaky and not supported by the report though. 500 cars per day is still 500 cars per day, even if they travelled 300m instead of 100.

..Mark..

]]> By: Thom http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/#comment-6599 Thom Mon, 08 Feb 2010 03:18:09 +0000 http://www.kitsilano.ca/?p=4447#comment-6599 Mark-- Easier access to report: http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20061114/documents/tt2.pdf Mark–
Easier access to report:

http://vancouver.ca/ctyclerk/cclerk/20061114/documents/tt2.pdf

]]> By: Thom http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/#comment-6598 Thom Mon, 08 Feb 2010 01:37:19 +0000 http://www.kitsilano.ca/?p=4447#comment-6598 Mark-- Report & Stats from: ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT - McBride Park Traffic - Waterloo Street Closure (October 2006) Administrative Report, transportation and traffic, november 14 2006, mcbride park, traffic, waterloo street, closure (access through City of Vancouver site). Report cites 1300 to 1900 autos per day at Blenheim, but no stats for Collingwood! The obvious fact not reported is that these diverted autos must then traverse and entire city block plus an end of a city block to reach 4th Ave, i.e. threefold increase in distance and time bordering the park, and on a narrower road! Mark– Report & Stats from: ADMINISTRATIVE REPORT – McBride Park Traffic – Waterloo Street Closure (October 2006) Administrative Report, transportation and traffic, november 14 2006, mcbride park, traffic, waterloo street, closure (access through City of Vancouver site). Report cites 1300 to 1900 autos per day at Blenheim, but no stats for Collingwood! The obvious fact not reported is that these diverted autos must then traverse and entire city block plus an end of a city block to reach 4th Ave, i.e. threefold increase in distance and time bordering the park, and on a narrower road!

]]> By: Mark A http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/#comment-6597 Mark A Mon, 08 Feb 2010 00:27:55 +0000 http://www.kitsilano.ca/?p=4447#comment-6597 Can you cite a source regarding the results of previous experiments? You may well be correct but I'd rather not just take your word for it. Thanks. Can you cite a source regarding the results of previous experiments? You may well be correct but I’d rather not just take your word for it. Thanks.

]]> By: Ian http://www.kitsilano.ca/2010/02/07/joan-of-arc-of-mcbride-park/#comment-6596 Ian Sun, 07 Feb 2010 23:31:37 +0000 http://www.kitsilano.ca/?p=4447#comment-6596 Thanks for this article. I'm fairly new hear and was stereotypically receptive to the idea when I heard it a couple months ago. If the issue has been seriously debated and the facts and evidence is against closing the street (as is suggested here) then I concede and stand with leaving the road open. Ensuring drivers obey playground zone speed limits would likely be more effective to promote safety. Thanks for this article. I’m fairly new hear and was stereotypically receptive to the idea when I heard it a couple months ago. If the issue has been seriously debated and the facts and evidence is against closing the street (as is suggested here) then I concede and stand with leaving the road open. Ensuring drivers obey playground zone speed limits would likely be more effective to promote safety.

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